rek whats the command to compile lets say. stupid.c
[Cypher] lol@Raven
jobber-d :P
jobber-d rek do you know where one can get partition magic?
@Raven oh my god rek are u trying to compile some script kiddie exploit?
rek nope
rek no, i'm trying to compile a stupid program that i'm writing
elad at your local software store, heh
@Raven rek, for the sake of it (just don't do anything stupid), it's:
rek and i dont wanna do it for windows
@Raven gcc source.c -o executable
jobber-d for free :)
@Raven rek, you'd better be telling the truth...
rek if u hack from a shell
rek you will get caught
rek no doubt about it
jobber-d unless you connect from somwhere else and use a differnt username
elad not hack, crack.
rek well i'm from my house
elad you dont need a shell to hack.
elad you dont need a computer to hack.
jobber-d it helps
jobber-d it helps
rek hehe
elad jobber-d; no.
jobber-d hehe
jobber-d the best hacking tool: a sharp axe
[Cypher] elad; do you mean Social Engineering?
@Raven elad is right, u need a spellbook
@Raven Cypher, no
@Raven Cypher, do u know the original meaning of hacking?
[Cypher] yeah
@Raven uhm i don't think so
elad hacking is making furniture out of wood
@Raven alright go ahead Cypher, tell us
jobber-d haha
elad hence, the #ashtray lumberjack
elad lumberjackz..
@Raven Cypher i don't mean this kinda meaning
@Raven ok the OTHER meaning of hack
@Raven does anyone here besides me and elad know what this means?
jobber-d to be one with the computer (?)
@Raven jobber-d, u can do THAT with an axe
@Raven i don't mean that kinda thing
jobber-d isnt it like being very savvy with a computer, knowing multiple programming codes, multiple OSs, and you
enjoy it?
@Raven ok, here's what:
@Raven i'll give u 24 hours to find the REAL meaning
@Raven jobber-d, no
@Raven that's just being a computer wiz
jobber-d ah
@Raven i'll give u 24 hours to find the REAL meaning
[Cypher] Hacker = A person that is interested in something more then the average expert. A person dedicated to
knowledge. A person driven by curiosity :-) (not exactly correct but the meaning that's worth something)
jobber-d i wonder what eric raymond has to say
@Raven everyone, come back tomorrow, same time, and we'll discuss this
jobber-d alright cool
@Raven Cypher, that's a good start
*** Joins: airborne (slipknot@uu212-190-7-198.unknown.uunet.be)
airborne lo
@Raven hi airborne
jobber-d hey
@Raven Cypher, i'll help
airborne what a nice and warm welcome over here :)
@Raven a hacker would try things that are irrational
@Raven illogical
@Raven things that aren't in the manual
@Raven and see what happens
@Raven a hacker wants to test his limits
[Cypher] a person trying something out of the defined box
@Raven see what he can and can't?
@Raven see what he can and can't
jobber-d a hacker has an instiable curiotity
@Raven who said u cannot drill holes in your computer's box to cool it out?
@Raven (it really works btw, makes it a tad faster)
jobber-d hehe
@Raven that kinda thing
@Raven see? now we won't have to meet tomorrow to discuss this
@Raven i already gave u the main comcept
*** rek is now known as rek_away
@Raven i already gave u the main concept
@Raven so in other words:
jobber-d not our fault :)
@Raven i hacked this and that doesn't mean i cracked into it
@Raven it means that i did something rather kewl with it that makes it exceed beyond it's limitations
@Raven do something that it's not supposed to do
@Raven uncover undocumented features
airborne making a bootdisk that has a tiny registry on it is another example of a hack, ain't it right
[Cypher] a hacker is actually a programmer
@Raven CREATE undocumented features
@Raven sorta
@Raven Cypher, not necessarily
[Cypher] usually
@Raven he could be a guy with a really large hammer
elad being a hacker has nothing to do with computers folks
@Raven Cypher modern hackers are usually programmers as well
jobber-d exactly
@Raven elad exactly
jobber-d the man who created the wheel was a hacker. he thought outside the box
* Cypher is gonna try something now - may disconnect (in that case - brb)
pirx_away i rather like the definition in the jargonfile
@Raven gee, i wanna see if i can fly this really old airship, dated back from World War II, in 300KMPH
@Raven jobber-d, right
elad being a hacker is first of all a level of understanding what you are, hacking is a state of mind
@Raven gee this wood is completely straight
@Raven let's bend it in the form of a wheel and see what happens!!
@Raven whoa!! it spins around! kewl!!
pirx_away for me, hacking is about a passionate curiosity
jobber-d a hacker must also be curios
elad pirx; the jargon refers to the computer-related term
pirx_away elad: well thats the original meaning isnt it:) and not many ppl use it in disparate contexts anyway
jobber-d wel not many people realize that a cracker isnt a hacker, either
elad a cracker is a hacker that uses his skills in order to break the law
[Cypher] btw, anyone logging this?
jobber-d oops
airborne yup
jobber-d crackers are classified as many things: as someone who decodes programs so they dont need
identification...
jobber-d or as a script kiddie...
jobber-d or as elad said
@Raven but airbone got in here in the middle of the discussion
elad being a cracker is far from being a script kiddy
elad look at it that way
[Cypher] so i'll just cut&paste from the channel
@Raven jobber-d that's another meaning of the word cracker
elad assuming you have 3 definitions and 3 types of people
@Raven Cypher send me the logs, then
*** Quits: rek_away (rekaerf34@208.25.255.97) (Leaving)
elad cracker, hacker, script kiddy
airborne cypher i'm logging
[Cypher] k
airborne but i ain't got all of it
@Raven from the beginning of the discussion
@Raven airbone u weren't here at the beginning
elad someone who break into systems after understanding them and finding a hole himself is a cracker
airborne nope
@Raven someone plz copy&paste everything from the beginning of the discussion
[Cypher] i'll do it
@Raven yup, although finding the hole yourself might be considered "elite"...
@Raven he still broke the law
@Raven which is dumb
@Raven IMHO
elad someone who knows a lot about a certain field (programming, unix) and do work for the community of that field
is a hacker
airborne not unless he notifies the ppl who previously 0wned the server/program that contains the hole
elad someone who knows nothing but how to compile a pre-written c source or script and use it to gain fame is a
script kiddy
airborne _previously_
elad heh, you mean telling them you have found a hole and then using it?
elad its still cracking
airborne not _then_using_it_
jobber-d if you find a hole, thats finding a use for the program other then its intent.
@Raven airborne, yes, but even if he notifies...
airborne telling them and if they don't solve it _show_ them
@Raven if he still has bad intentions
@Raven he's a cracker
@Raven airborne, that's another good point
airborne yup, bad intentions are bad
@Raven u see, when u find a hole
@Raven and tell the vendor
@Raven and he keeps ignoring you
@Raven there's no other solution but to go public with it
elad no
elad no no no!
jobber-d bugtraq
@Raven to force it to take care of it's security
elad no!
jobber-d hehe
airborne and going public means a lotta scriptkiddies jumpin in (bad)
elad you do not publish a hole until there's a fix
@Raven elad, with instructions for admins
jobber-d taking the law into your own hands :)
elad look look people
@Raven elad but what if they've been ignoring you for months?
elad where does script kiddies find their scripts from?
elad lists like bugtraq!
jobber-d its better then someone else finding out and then using it personally
elad understand my point?
@Raven you're right
@Raven damn right
@Raven i agree with u
jobber-d what else are you gonna do though, elad?
elad you could write your own fix
@Raven ok so EVEN if you're being ignored, don't go public, right?
elad if its open source - easy
airborne keeping it to yourself ain't good either, someone else - with bad intentions - is bound to find it too
elad unless you have a fix
@Raven elad, so ur saying that if u write a fix u can go public with it?
jobber-d elad: everyone would get lz and wouldnt bother anymore to patch their stuff
@Raven and send out the fix
@Raven let admins have it
@Raven but also force the company to release an OFFICIAL fix
jobber-d if the good people were doing it
elad its a lot easier if its open source though
airborne if you ain't got the source then it ain't a fix, but a workaround. And there are ways around workarounds
@Raven elad, and if u really can't write a fix, like if u found a bug in, say, NT 4, that allows a malicious
cracker to predict sequence numbers or something
@Raven something that u simply cannot write a fix for
@Raven since NT is soooooooooo unopen-source
@Raven but u do have a workaround...
@Raven a temporary fix
elad you publish the workaround
elad but listen
@Raven can u still go public?
elad the real experts hang in newsgroups
elad many people read newsgroups
elad 10 times than the people who read bugtraq
airborne m'kay
pirx_away hate that when people reason like this: "well i found this hole and told the admin, but he didnt do
anything to fix it, so i exploited it to show him/her how bad security he/she has"
@Raven ohh i get your drift!
elad so you might want to find some nt newsgroup (maybe on a microsoft server) and release it there
@Raven noone searches through usenet for holes!!
elad exactly.
jobber-d only for plugs
@Raven ohh wait but what if someone, could be even someone from bugtraq, finds it and publishes it?
@Raven it happened before
jobber-d then its out of your hands
elad well you cant prevent 100% of the cases can you :)
airborne just mail bill@microsoft.com if you don't want it to be in the _right_ hands :)
@Raven elad too bad i thought u had another magic workaround
@Raven :-)
@Raven that usenet idea was good
elad a friend of mine came up with an idea that will be a break through in this business
elad i cant tell you the idea though
@Raven airborne, microsoft has failed to respond to bug reports in most of the times
airborne lemme guess, napster for haxors
@Raven only after the exploit has been released
airborne that's why i was being sarcastic
elad airborne; far
elad far from it.
elad more of a service
airborne i'm just kiddin y'all :)
*** Joins: Gap^v^ (hackkk@202.140.124.211)
@Raven hey Gap^v^
jobber-d wanna see something that will revolutionize stuff? go to freenet.sourceforge.net
jobber-d he3y gap
@Raven i gtg everyone
@Raven send me the logs if u can
@Raven barakirs@netvision.net.il
Gap^v^ i get it~
Gap^v^ ^^
@Raven even if it's not the whole thing
*** Joins: kript0n (kript0n@coias1-p40.telepac.pt)
@Raven cya
jobber-d cya raven
*** Quits: Raven (~irc@ras2-p139.hfa.netvision.net.il) (Raven has no reason)
